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Black Becomes The Sun
An Interview with
World Burns to Death!

by Oliver Sheppard

This is an interview I did with World Burns to Death in 2003. It was something I originally meant for a paper zine I was going to do, but I ended up putting it on a website I started (and which no longer exists). CVLT Nation is a good home for it, at long last.

You probably know who World Burns to Death are, but in the event you don’t: World Burns to Death existed from 2000 until 2009 and were not only one of the best American hardcore bands of that period, but, some would argue, are one of the best hardcore punk bands ever. (And I would be very tempted to agree with anyone who would argue that!) Hearing the band back in 2002 shook me out of a growing apathy I had at that time towards hardcore; the band singlehandedly reignited my interest in punk in a very powerful way. 9/11 had just happened, Bush was quickly growing frighteningly tyrannical, and American culture — especially here in Texas — became reactionary and oppressive over night. This mattered. Enter these genuinely scary-looking guys right in the belly of the beast — Austin, Texas — belting out aggressive hardcore songs about US warmongering, highlighting who the real terrorists were, combined with profane graphics of President Bush, coming out to play on stage with black raccoon eyes (and a fog machine!) and a kind of disturbingly intimidating demeanor — I thought it was brilliant! I still do.

Singer Jack Control sang with Severed Head of State, another great hardcore band that contained members of Tragedy. (Control now heads up the almighty Enormous Door studios in Austin, TX.) Other members of World Burns to Death were (and are) involved with From Ashes Rise, Kegcharge, Smash Detox, and others. Before his death, celebrated British DJ John Peel played World Burns to Death on his show and accorded the band “recommended” status. Fenriz of Darkthrone often claimed the band were his favorite. “Itโ€™s too bad most Americans have heard of Slipnot, but not World Burns To Death,” he told an interviewer. World Burns to Death — who took their name from a song by Finland’s Bastards — toured South America and Japan, where they were especially loved. It sucks that they ever broke up.

So here’s the interview. It was done in April, 2003 so some of the questions seem dated, especially the stuff about Bush and the then-recent Iraq invasion. Interviewed here are Jack Control, vocals; Zac Tew, guitar; and Jon Guerinot, drums.

WORLD BURNS TO DEATH INTERVIEW

OLIVER: Iย put on The Sucking of the Missile Cock 12โ€ณ LP and was blown away! A lotย of references are made to Japanese or Swedish hc influences in reviewsย of the album. Are those the primary influences (musically) of the band?ย If not, what is?

ZAC: Older Japanese and Scandinavianย hardcore is probably our main influence. (I could dish out a list aย page long.) We all draw from different inspirations; some have strongย roots in old metal where others could give you an entire history ofย classic rock.

JON: For me, yes. There are others: Discharge (ofย course). Although I think everyone has a little of their own tasteย thrown into the mix as well.

JACK: Well, yes and no โ€ฆ those are some of my ownย personal influences. Finnish, Swedish, and Japanese hardcore have beenย an obsession of mine for almost 17 years. But I think WB2D is its ownย animal. Some of these elements do indeed shine through, but a lot ofย it, I feel, is uniquely WB2D.

OLIVER: The lyrics and liner notes ofย Sucking of the Missile Cock reference everyone from Istvan Meszaros, toย Herbet Marcuse, to William Shakespeare. Is everyone in the groupย well-read? Is there a political philosophy that guides the band, and ifย so, what is it?

ZAC: No one philosophy guides any of us.ย Itโ€™s safe to say weโ€™re all anti-nationalist, anti-military, andย absolutely apalled with U.S. foreign policy. Being well-read dependsย upon your interest. We all have our strong points.

JON: My political philosophy that guides me is based onย what goes on around me. The painfully obvious. When I look outside andย see all the bullshit going on in this country and all of the bullshitย that this country causes others, it pisses me off. Every time youย blink, the U.S. has either turned its back on someone, lied to itsย people, or started another fucking war.

JACK: No, not everyone in the band is well-read. I wouldย not even go so far as to say that I am well-read. The lyrics do haveย some pretty esoteric and even obtuse references and sources, and I haveย had to do a lot of reading over the years to dig this up, but I willย leave it to the individual to decide whether or not Iโ€™m โ€œwell-read.โ€ As far as a guiding political philosophy, we do not have one that Iย would say the entire band adheres to. We are individual people, withย individual ideas and experiences. We do agree on the individualisticย anarchism of Max Stirner, and the nihilism of Nietzsche. Though weย cannot agree on what is appropriate to eat or wear. But โ€ฆ war bad,ย punk good.

OLIVER: The title song, โ€œThe Sucking ofย the Missile Cock,โ€ seems even more timely today than when it wasย probably written. Before Gulf War 2 began, the public seemed prettyย divided about fighting with Iraq. After the fighting started, moreย people switched over to the side of the war-mongers. There was a kindย of irrational war hysteria going on and it seemed like a lot of punksย were inventing their own reasons to support Bush or something. What theย hell is that at all about?

ZAC: To put it plainly, these nationalists have nothingย to do with punk. Apparently corporate media and music have watered downย the ideology of punk to the point these jaded assholes are convincedย they have something to do with it. Fuck โ€˜em.

JON: I have no fucking idea. More and more โ€œpatrioticย punxโ€ are showing up in our scene now more than ever. It makes me soย goddamn sick to see a so-called โ€œpunkโ€ waving a flag, joining theย army, and shouting anarchy at the same time. I donโ€™t get it at all.

JACK: Punk is a microcosm of the larger society thatย surrounds it. To make claims that being โ€œpunkโ€ excludes you from theย faux pas of the rest of society is profoundly naive. The one consistentย flaw within the punk community throughout its history has been itsย inability to be objective about itself. To take any sort of criticism,ย to acknowledge that we are our parents, regardless of the music weย listen to, or the slogans we shout for a couple of years. The mostย obnoxious activists usually come and go through the ranks of โ€œpunkโ€ย over the course of 3 to 4 years, if they are lucky. Then theย temptations of inheriting daddyโ€™s law firm kick in, and the revolutionย gets put on the backburner. The zealous โ€œpunkโ€ activist becomes anotherย Dockers-wearing drone for the man, and the cycle repeats.

I guess whatย I am trying to say is that most of the people within any scene reallyย have no strength in their convictionsโ€ฆ whether it be a nazi skinhead,ย or a rich, white, p.c. โ€œpunkโ€ kid. Itโ€™s all a fashion pose and/orย another way to get laid. To expect anything more from these people, orย more importantly, from the punk world as a whole, again, is naive.

OLIVER: What do you all think of theย phrase โ€œSupport Our Troopsโ€ and how it is used in this war?

ZAC: Another meaningless saying that seems to get a realย rise out of the public. Kind of like โ€œthe power of pride.โ€ What theย fuck does that mean? Itโ€™s disturbing they can print up these goofyย phrases on bumper stickers, show you their best footage on Fox Newsย concealing the things they donโ€™t want you to see, and the next thingย you know 7 out of 10 cars on the road are sporting these slogans.

JON: All that phrase is doing is asking people toย support the unlawful murder that it going on in the Middle East. Inย case you or anyone else reading this didnโ€™t know, this war is not new.ย It started long before March 20, 2003 or September 11, 2001. โ€œWar onย Terrorโ€โ€“what a fucking joke.

JACK: The phrase is a cop-out. The left use it as aย justification for an anti-war stance. Begging for permission. So as notย to be labeled anti-American. World Burns to Death does not ask forย permission. We are anti-American. Fuck the troops. Bring them home inย body bags. Fucking brainless murderers.

OLIVER: A lot of people coming into punkย nowadays donโ€™t seem to be bringing the same kinds of values to it thatย they used to. In an interview, Duncan Barlow of the hc band Endpointย said, โ€œIf you go to a hardcore show these days, there are so manyย โ€™prettyโ€™ people thereโ€“people that look like they should be regularย people in high school, beautiful women and men, all perfectly shaped.ย When I got into hardcore, it was a place for the โ€˜freaksโ€™ and theย โ€™fags.โ€™โ€ Do you think this is any sort of problem for hardcore?

JON: I donโ€™t personally care what the fuck people lookย and dress like in the scene. Just think about it this way: they couldย all be dressing the exact same and listening to Skrewdriver and otherย bullshit bands like that.

ZAC:ย You can really look at it from twoย entirely different viewpoints. An optimistic way would be that hardcoreย is reaching a broader audience and that more people are aware of theย message, if any, that is being relayed. Of course another way ofย looking at it is, as earlier stated, that itโ€™s been worn so thin thatย any old frat boy is at the shows chanting the slogans.

JACK: Two things: There was never a time in the historyย of punk where there was a consistently admirable set of values. As aย kid who grew up within that world from 1983 to the present, I canย assure you that while there were attitudes present at that time thatย said โ€œfight war, not warsโ€, etcโ€ฆ there were also just as manyย reactionary bigots and warmongers within our ranks to temper these moreย noble attitudes. I suppose punk was more for the freaks and fags then. I was one of them. But at the same time, these freaks and fags broughtย the same values as their parents. Just like now. To say that you longย for the old days of the punk scene, when there were more admirableย values, conveniently ignores or glosses over the existence ofย reactionary elements that existed then, more so than nowโ€ฆ such asย nazi skinheads, gaybashing, and random violence.ย At the same time, I feel that what has become the โ€œpunkโ€ scene now isย completely alien to me. I cannot relate to it at all. I like a lot ofย the kids who are of this generation of punk, but I have trouble makingย any connection to the culture that I came from. Sometimes, it does seemย like nothing more than a collection of rich, white, GAP models whoย discovered โ€œpunkโ€ through an article in their girlfriendโ€™s Sassyย magazine, and their dry, activist politics, through the lyrics of aย Rage Against the Machine record. When I was a kid, a lot of kids gotย into punk through Minor Threat. Now you have kids getting into โ€œpunkโ€ย through Fugazi. And this โ€œpunkโ€ has become a fucking abomination.

OLIVER: Who designed the cover for Suckingย of the Missile Cock? Also, what do the characters and symbols in theโ€จlogo mean? They look kind of Hebrew. What do they say?

JON: Jack designed the cover of the LP. Prettyย appropriate. The symbols are Hebrew but are just phonetic. It spellsย out โ€œWorld Burns to Death,โ€ but in real Hebrew it is โ€œgibberish.โ€ย Which reminds me of a story: Some asshole is standing behind me and myย wife, who was wearing one of our shirts, in line at a Wal-Mart. Heโ€™sย staring at the back of her shirt. He looked so distressed, like he hadย forgotten how to read Hebrew or something. His friend came up and askedย him, โ€œWhat does it say?โ€ He replied, โ€œItโ€™s gibberish. It says nothing.โ€ย I laughed so fucking hard on the way out of the store. He looked soย disgusted. Gibberish, just like your fucking religion, you bastard.

ZAC: We let Jack take care of most of the artwork. Heย never lets us down. We take care of the music.

JACK: I did the cover. The characters are Hebrew. Theyย say and mean nothing. It is a letter-for-letter translation of theย name. The symbol corresponds with the โ€œwโ€ character on my keyboard inย the Chaya font. However, the symbol is also used by the Israeliย military on their munitions, and also as the symbol for politicalย demonstration. So, it is nonsense, it is symbolic, and it isย provocative at the same time. I decided to use this imagery because Iย knew it would make people ask questions. And it does. And that, I feel,ย is very important.

OLIVER: A lot of bands nowadays areย influenced by Amebix and Motorhead,ย or even death metal. HC seems a lot โ€œdarkerโ€ than it used to be. Why doย you think this is happening?

JON: The music is evolving. Which, contrary to popularย belief, is not always a bad thing. Amebix and Motorhead are bothย excellent bands and have been around a long time. Most bands areย together for a few years, release a couple of records, and then breakย up for some petty reason.

ZAC: Itโ€™s something I havenโ€™t put alot ofย thought into. Evolution may be a good term for it. Iโ€™ve just alwaysย liked darker chord progressions; they seem more aggressive.

JACK: It is hard to paint an apocalyptic picture withinย a pop song.

OLIVER: Can hardcore punk shows becomeย centers for community activism extending beyond scene politics? I spokeย with a European punk who seemed amazed that the US punk scene was notย necessarily a part of the left in the US. Why do you think there areย these nationalist punks or apathetic punks who listen to a lot ofย political stuff but never organize to do anything outside the punkย scene?

ZAC: The โ€œsceneโ€ is pretty divided these days. Mostย D.I.Y. shows I went to when I was a bit younger always had Earthย First!, Anti-Racist Action, and Food Not Bombs operating at them. Iย know shows can be centers for activism but I donโ€™t want to beat issuesย to death every time Iโ€™m out watching a band play. Thereโ€™s no reason toย preach to those already aware of the issues. I feel hardline politicsย donโ€™t really have a place at the shows, the way nationalism shouldnโ€™tย have a place in punk.

JACK: I think a lot of the politics that exist withinย the punk scene are contrived and boring. I do not want a rich, whiteย college kid telling me how society should be, when he cannot even takeย out his own garbage. Punk used to be a very individualistic thing. Forย me, it still is. Politics of self. The revolution of everyday life.ย Threat by example. Yeah, I suppose punk shows could become vehicles forย community activismโ€ฆ but I donโ€™t really want to go to those shows. Youย have to understand that political activism is infested with obnoxious,ย repulsive people. This, more than anything, is to blame for why moreย punks are not following the party line. I will not make excuses for theย more ignorant elements that exist within โ€œpunk.โ€ But I want no part ofย a revolution led by these chumps.

OLIVER: Should punks vote against Bush inย 2004? Why or why not?

ZAC: Weโ€™ll all be smart enough to oppose Bush I wouldย hope. I wouldnโ€™t waste any time voting. We all saw the electoral voteย mishap in Florida last election.

JON: If they are registered, sure. Vote none of theย above for all the puppets that are running. It is so funny to seeย people actually believing the lines of crap that these assholes feed usย when they are running for office and then the same people look soย surprised once the same assholes get elected and turn around and sayย something completely different.

JACK: No. Itโ€™s a fucking donkey show that holds noย relevance to your every day existence. Take the poison or starve.ย Neither, thank you. And fuck them for presenting this charade as ourย only option. You should know better.

OLIVER: I was at an Electric Frankensteinย [LULZ @ me .. cough – Oliver]ย show in Dallas and between bands a guy who โ€œlooked punkโ€ got up onย stage and said that after the show they were going to have an annualย โ€bum runโ€ where people could go and bet money on homeless peopleย running races in Deep Ellum. I was disgusted at this but no one in theย crowd spoke out (not even me, shamefully); in fact some people laughed.ย Have you ever witnessed disturbing things like this in the punkย community? How can this be challenged?

JON: I think it just needs to be takenย with a grain of salt. Just donโ€™t involve yourself in things you see asย distasteful. Iโ€™m not going to pretend I havenโ€™t done my fair share ofย terrible and juvenile things in the past. Just donโ€™t surround yourselfย with things you donโ€™t support. Iโ€™ve witnessed a number of things Iย could call disturbing and Iโ€™m sure Iโ€™ll see plenty more.

JACK: Yes. Ridicule. It is always the best weapon.ย Whether this situation, or a Nazi skinhead. Reasoning does not work. You cannot argue with ignorance. These people do not know their ownย history or argument, much less yours. Violence makes them moreย steadfast in their ignorance, although violence can be both funny, andย gratifying. But if you make people like these feel insecure with theirย opinion and identity, if you make them feel embarassed of what and whoย they are, this more than anything, will make them change. People areย dumb. People care about what other people think about them. That is whyย they are who they are in the first place.

OLIVER: Is WB2D a โ€œside projectโ€ or is itย itโ€™s own thing?

JON: Not for me. Although, Zac and I have been talkingย to James (the original other guitarist before Brad joined) about aย โ€side projectโ€. [This would become Kegcharge –ย Oliver]

JACK: A full time band. A way of life.

OLIVER: Any new releases coming out? Whereย can we get them?โ€จJACK: A new 7โ€ณ out now on Prank. New 7โ€ณย out soon on Hardcore Holocaust. New split 7โ€ณ with Brazilโ€™s Sick Terrorย out now on Usine de Sangue. All releases available throughย hardcoreholocaust.com.

ZAC: Hardcore Holocaust usually keeps all of our stuffย in stock. From T-shirts to records. โ€œThe Art of Self Destructionโ€ 7โ€ณย was just released on Prank and I believe you can contact them directlyย for ordering. The split 7โ€ณ w/Sick Terror (Brasil) was released onย Terrotten records and you can also order it from them. Hardcoreย Holocaust will be releasing another 7โ€ณ called โ€œNoย Dawn Comes โ€ฆ Night Without Endโ€ soon in the near future.

—————

You can, and should, buy World Burns to Death’s records and other merch at the Enormous Door webstore, here.

Written By

Oliver Sheppard is a writer from Texas. He's been writing for CVLT Nation since 2012. He's also written for Maximum Rock-n-Roll, Bandcamp.com, Souciant, and others. He started the Radio Schizo podcast in the early days of podcasting (2005) and began the Wardance and Funeral Parade event nights in Dallas and Austin, respectively, in 2012. He is the author of Destruction: Text I and Thirteen Nocturnes.

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